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FISHER
by James K. Willcox
This article originally appeared in StarPolish. |
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Billed as the Internet's first real success story, Fisher
rose out of obscurity in Southern California at the height of the
dotcom explosion to become, according to myriad reports, the most
downloaded band on the net. Bolstered by more than two million downloads
and a single, "I Will Love You," that got picked up for regular
airplay on a San Diego radio station, Fisher was signed to FarmClub.com.
The band - actually a duo that consists of singer/lyricist KathyFisher
and keyboard player/songwriter Ron Wasserman - seemed slated
for stardom.
So what happened to Fisher?
The answer lies somewhere between "nothing" and "everything." Perhaps
more than any other band, Fisher's career has mirrored the tumultuous
fortunes of other Internet-driven entities, with one notable exception:
the band has not only survived, it's prospered.
However, the group's journey hasn't been an easy one. After signing
with Farmclub.com and becoming the poster child for the potential
of the Internet, the band found itself relegated to a much lower
status when Farmclub fell victim to the dotcom implosion and the
group's contract was subsumed within parent company Interscope/Universal.
As a result, instead of being Farmclub's flagship act, Fisher became
just another emerging act signed to a major label. The band's frustration
only grew as "I Will Love You" hit the number one position in several
major radio markets, yet fans were unable to buy the album, True
North, at retail.
Despite its frustration, however, the band didn't give up - in fact,
it redoubled its own efforts to reach commercial success. For example,
Fisher recorded several commercial spots, including the "L-O-V-E"
song for Chrysler's PT Cruiser commercial (and unfortunately, hasn't
yet been able to get the rights from the ad agency to record a full-length
version of the song). The duo also teamed up with arranger/producer
Mark Governor to create December, a six-song collection of Christmas
music that was available exclusively online. In addition, several
months ago Fisher left Interscope - reportedly under very favorable
terms - and is now hard at working finishing up its next CD and
looking for a new label.
StarPolish Editorial Director James K. Willcox
caught up with Kathy Fisher - and briefly, Ron Wasserman -- to discuss
Fisher's fortunes, life as an Internet darling, and why so many
people think Fisher is only Kathy Fisher. |
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STARPOLISH:
Hi, Kathy. I don't know if you remember, but we met briefly when
I was at [Internet music company] Riffage.com. Do you remember Riffage?
FISHER:
(Laughing) No, I only use the Internet for E-mail and shopping.
STARPOLISH:
That's pretty funny, given that [Fisher] is billed as the Internet's
first real success story.
FISHER:
Well, I furnished my house on the Internet -- I am a true user of
it. But I've never used Napster, I've never downloaded anything
for free that wasn't approved, you know, so I'm not like that in
that way. But you know, if there's a CD I can't find, I always go
to Amazon.com, and I get it right away. So yeah, I am a pioneer
in that regard, but I'm not a tech head and I don't know every site.
What was Riffage?
STARPOLISH:
It was a site like MP3.com, created to help expose music by independent
artists to a wider audience. After MP3.com, it was probably the
biggest. We successfully raised two substantial rounds of financing,
and then were unable to raise the third after the market changed
so dramatically. I was the second person hired, and it was a real
roller coaster ride.
FISHER:
That's interesting… basically, MP3.com is now completely controlled
by Universal and it's all known acts. The whole Internet thing was
undertaken by [Fisher's other member] Ron [Wasserman], my partner,
who you met -- that's his brainchild. And one of the things he would
warn people about was the limited amount of time to do it. Because
he'd tell people what we were doing, and they were like, "Oh I don't
know… " And he'd say, "Go get a computer and do it now, because
there's a small window of opportunity."
STARPOLISH:
So he was able to see that the door might be shut for indie acts
before too long?
FISHER:
Yeah, basically, he predicted that -- and I saw what he meant, because
I could see the artists trickling in on MP3.com: the David Bowies,
and the Madonna tracks here and there.
STARPOLISH:
And Alanis Morissette…
FISHER:
Yes, it was all trickling in, and it was all very obvious that soon
[the labels] would go, "Hey! This is a cool way to advertise for
very little." And I guess Universal bought it out to control it.
STARPOLISH:
Or they wanted the whole backend part of a system that's already
been established so they could use that to sell music by popular
artists for a fee. But yeah, there doesn't seem to be a lot of independent-oriented
Web sites left any more. Napster, for example…
FISHER:
| "You
would think that two million downloads would equal shipping
gold, but we didn't. We still had to go through the same career-building
process as any other band." |
I was
always against Napster because I felt that it really fostered the
idea that music should always be free. I thought that it would raise
a generation of music listeners who would not feel the need to pay
for it, and I really think that's come true.
STARPOLISH:
Ron, obviously, felt differently. Well, I think we'll find that
out in the next year as all these services launch fee-based subscription
services. I guess we'll see how many of these people who were willing
to grab stuff for free will now be willing to pay money.
FISHER:
They won't… I think we've already seen that a lot of them have gone
away, kind of like, "Ah! Where'd the free shit go? I'll find something
new… I'll hack into something or I'll go turn the TV on…"
STARPOLISH:
As far as Fisher is concerned, the number that was thrown out was
that you had more than two million downloads.
FISHER:
Yes, but you know what? That helped us in terms of our brick-and-mortar
career, in that every city we went to when we toured, we had a fan
base there because of our Internet exposure, and being active with
the fans through E-mail and all that - but we didn't ship gold.
You would think that two million downloads would equal shipping
gold, but we didn't. We still had to go through the same career-building
process as any other band. The only thing is, most baby bands sell
like ten thousand their first year, and we way over topped that.
So that was good.
STARPOLISH:
Do you guys talk about what you ended up doing in terms of units?
FISHER:
I don't like to, because if you compare it to Eminem, we look like
failures. If you compare it to most new artists and the lack of
promotion we had with this record, it's phenomenal. So I don't want
to give units, but I will say that it was far superior than most
new artists do, and so in that regard I think a lot of that is attributed
to the Internet exposure.
STARPOLISH:
So, do you think that was what got you signed?
FISHER:
Yes. I think that because the Internet was such a bust for so many
people in so many ways. I don't think it's going to be such a door
opener for bands now; it will be a window opener. It will always
be a part of marketing in your career and fan outreach, but in terms
off blowing the socks off a label with your Internet stats, they
don't care anymore. My A&R guy says, "I have people calling me everyday
saying, 'Well, we have so many downloads… and he's like, "That's
nice -- how many records did you sell?"
STARPOLISH:
So that's what they are still looking at?
FISHER:
Yes, it always comes down to brick-and-mortar -- along with our
Internet stuff. When we were hot and being downloaded, we sold about
6,000 copies of our indie record without touring without much promotion.
So we figured, "Well, what could we do if we actually put something
into it?"
STARPOLISH:
So is there a level of disappointment in terms of translating two
million downloads into actual record sales?
FISHER:
Yes, because we were the guinea pigs and we had our "I Will Love
You" hit on the radio in San Diego early, and it incited the record
label to get the record out early. And that was really a gamble
because it was fourth quarter, there was no lead in time, and they
were relying on the downloads to translate into sales. So it was
Christmas time and you would walk into the stores and all the hot
placement spots for promotion were already sold six months prior.
STARPOLISH:
And for a lot of money…
FISHER:
Yes, for a lot of money, to the Mariah Careys and all those [types].
And there was a little Fisher record in the back storage room that
no one even knew to put out. Basically, the label was like, "Well,
we know we haven't had the proper time to gear up, but it's so hot
on the Internet…" I think they felt that it was going to compensate.
STARPOLISH:
I always thought it was sort of ironic that you were billed as the
first Internet success story, when the reality was that it was radio
that really broke you. It was also strange - and fortuitous - that
they ended up playing a ballad on drive time radio. How did that
come about?
FISHER:
See, that was odd…
STARPOLISH:
Did the DJ just love the song?
FISHER:
Yes -- and that was our most popular download on the entire Internet.
If we had two million downloads, one million of then was for "I
Will Love You". I mean, that song, for whatever reason… I mean,
they always tell you that you never break an artist with a ballad
because drive-time radio won't play it. And I believed that, because
they'd pushed it into my brain all these years, and it finally sunk
in, so I felt like, "Oh, that makes a lot of sense!" And then this
radio station grabs this ballad, and people are crying in their
cars on the way home from work. Some people are crying because it
makes them think of people they love, some people are crying 'cause
someone just died… I mean it was like this broad thing.
STARPOLISH:
Did you and Ron think that song was your strongest? I'm trying to
remember how that was originally released - was it part of an indie
CD?
FISHER:
Yes, we had an indie CD first.
STARPOLISH:
And did you think of that as the strongest song?
FISHER:
No (laughing), not at all. I mean, it's so simple, so stripped down.
In fact, when Ron put it up on the MP3.com site, it was like he
knew he wanted to put up three or four songs and he figured, "Well,
I better have a mid-tempo and an up-tempo [song], and what the hell,
let's throw this ballads on it." And people just responded -- maybe
because it's so simple. People like clean-cut simplicity. But it
was a total fluke. We always thought the first single would be "Hello,
It's Me" or "Anyway".
STARPOLISH:
It's funny how it works out sometimes.
FISHER:
Absolutely, in terms of we couldn't get arrested. It took us more
than 10 years to get a record deal. And in that regard, to the Internet
[community], we were are an Internet success story, because we had
utilized other ways of marketing. And think I discussed this on
the [conference] panel where you and I met -- we would license anything
to a TV or film company for a dollar, just for the exposure and
the connections. We had done all the sacrifices, so the Internet
for us was like, "OK, can we build a fan base from here, because
we are not going to do it in L.A. playing the Troubadour." Who knew?
So it was an experiment, and it was enough to get our fan base up
enough to sell our indie CDs, and to legitimize us to a label. And
we never, ever, ever looked to the Internet as a way to replace
the labels.
STARPOLISH:
|
"We never, ever, ever looked to the Internet as a way to replace
the labels." |
For
the label, do you think your Internet success took some of the risk
out of it, where they were able to see some kind of quantifiable
thing to justify signing you?
FISHER:
Yes -- they always need something to justify their risk. And you
can't blame them, it's business and there is a certain amount of
logic to it.
STARPOLISH:
In a way it's like getting a loan - you almost have to prove you
don't need one to get it. If you desperately need a loan, you're
not going to get one.
FISHER:
Exactly! You have to have some collateral. And that was our collateral
-- it was like, "Hey, we've attracted all these people and they're
coming to get our music." And I've said to people who have been
cynical, "You know what? I agree with you. We still need to prove
ourselves in the big arena, you know?" Yeah, we're successful when
we're for free and we do need to prove whether we do have music
that's good enough for people to actually open up their wallets.
It's a long journey ahead, so we are in no way cocky about it.
STARPOLISH:
You mentioned getting your songs on soundtracks -- how important
was it to get on Great Expectations? And in Message in
a Bottle, did you actually get a song in that, or did it get
cut out of the movie?
FISHER:
Actually, both "I Will LoveYou" and "True North" were inspired by
that script. And Darren Higman, who was responsible for getting
us on Great Expectations, gave us that script to submit and
said, "You guys should take a crack at it." And basically it was
a thing where one person loved it and one person wanted a male singer.
And I think they attempted [to use] it in the film, in the end scene
where he drowns, but I guess the test audiences were just too devastated.
It is a pretty sad song in some ways, and I guess they didn't want
people killing themselves as they were walking out of the theater.
So they changed it to more of a melodic kind of thing. But it inspired
the song and we have a great relationship with Darren, and eventually
we'll do another film with him. But it's tricky because he's [with]
Atlantic. For example, we were up for Julia Robert's film America's
Sweetheart, and the director loved the song, Darren loved the
song but…
STARPOLISH:
Label politics?
FISHER:
Well, it's an Atlantic soundtrack. They have eight new artists they
want to break and there's only room for 13 tracks. They're not going
to pick up an Interscope artist.
STARPOLISH:
You just have to hope that your record company is also a movie studio?
FISHER:
(Laughing) Yeah, I know - Universal doesn't really have an active
soundtracks department, so to speak. The Moulin Rouge soundtrack
that just came out was basically championed by the head of A&M --
it was his project. But it's interesting -- the labels are giving
less and less support for [soundtracks]. The people I know who are
in soundtracks say to me, "You know, it's amazing -- they want to
pay less and less for these soundtracks in terms of promoting them,
but they want hits on them."
STARPOLISH:
I can't say I've understood a lot of the major-label thinking.
FISHER:
You know, its back to the bank thing. [Labels] are banks, and we
couldn't have toured without them. We could certainly keep making
records without them, but in the grand scheme of things we'd like
to try to reach as wide an audience as possible, so it's a gamble
we signed on for. And you learn a lot. We learned a lot in the first
year. It's like, "OK, we established these relationships at the
label, but we forgot to establish those relationships with the label,"
and "OK, next record we need to work harder at these relationships,
and what outside relationships do we need to bring in to make us
stronger?" Someone put it to me in a really funny way: Every artist,
everything that's hot, is like a soccer ball, and the people at
the label are the little kids on a soccer team. If you ever watch
little kids play soccer, there's no teamwork -- they just always
follow the ball. There's no one saying, "I'll set it up back here."
Knowing that, you go, "OK, what can I do to make myself that ball?"
"Who do I need to hook up with?" "Is there an indie person who is
in this specialty or that specialty that can make my cause stronger,"
so that the label will go, "God, you know even when we ignore them,
they get another film cut or they just got a car commercial." For
example, we did a theme song for the Seattle Mariners that got a
write-up in the Seattle Times, because we're always looking for
things to be involved in.
STARPOLISH:
I guess when you first start out, it's all about the music. But
then you realize that music is only part of what you have to do.
FISHER:
|
"There are definitely, definitely female quotas... The woman
with the biggest balls was getting the deal -- and God bless
her." |
That's
what I was trying to explain to people at the seminar. The media
always glorifies things. Artists always appear like they wake up
and just be creative and drink wine. But the successful ones learn
to hone their business skills as well. I don't think Mick Jagger
gets up every day and waits for people to run his life for him.
There is a reason why he is still out there… aside from the immense
talent.
STARPOLISH:
Before you signed with Farmclub, you had some very bad experiences
with labels, if I remember correctly. What happened earlier, and
has it been a different experience with Interscope?
FISHER:
Well, the biggest problem… when we did the soundtrack, the problem
with Atlantic was that the person that we met with said, "Well,
we really like you guys, and I love the song, but I'm not sure if
we want to sign you. Let's put you on an option deal. Keep writing,
keep submitting, we'll see how it goes, and then we'll tell you
if we want to sign." Plus, they were considering releasing "Breakable"
as a single. It was in line as the sixth single, and they only got
to five and stopped. But the most frustrating thing with any label
is the lack of communication, and with Atlantic we would submit
all these songs and the guy would never listen to them and never
call us back. It was just so insulting… you know, just call me and
tell me you hate it -- I don't care, I can take that. But don't
ignore it, don't tell us that you might give us a life, or might
give us a career and then do nothing. It's so insulting. Prior to
that, though, the most frustrating thing for me was the female thing,
because it was always, "We have two females on our roster, there's
no room for more."
STARPOLISH:
It's like a country club quota…
FISHER:
Yes -- there are definitely, definitely female quotas. But I learned
from that. I learned that the difference between the women who were
getting signed and me -- if we had equal talent down the line, if
you could level the field and say, "She's just as good as you, you're
just as good as her" -- is that she was probably more of a hustler
than me. You know, she was out there… maybe getting in her car and
touring alone with a guitar and getting a bigger fan base, like
Ani DiFranco. The woman with the biggest balls was getting the deal
-- and God bless her. So with us, once we decided to stop sitting
at home waiting for the phone to ring, and to control what we did,
and released the indie CD and found ways to put the music out there,
then we were viewed as the people who were the hustlers. But --
you know Farmclub is gone, right?
STARPOLISH:
Yes - and you're now on Interscope, right?
FISHER:
Yes, which is interesting, because with Farmclub it all comes back
to the hopes and dreams of the Internet, and they came into the
Internet world at the end of the rush. So they missed the boat.
Then they cut their losses in half, just like every other Internet
company. There's like a two-percent survival rate with Internet
companies now. So basically, when we were on Farm Club we were king
and queen of Farm Club, because we were their poster children. We
were a big fish there, and we had the back-up support of Interscope's
departments. Now that Farmclub is gone and it's just Interscope,
we are so far down on the food chain -- and we are so aware of that.
STARPOLISH:
So it's almost like starting over again?
FISHER:
We are starting over. Our record was gaining ground in AAA, but
then the priorities were Blues Traveler, the third U2 single, blah
blah blah… so we were sacrificed. We realized our status, we realized
how and why it happened, so we said, "Let's get some other things
going on, lets get another film cut… let's rev it up. Lets go over
to Holland in September and kick some ass."
STARPOLISH:
(Laughing) Thank god for Europe…
FISHER:
(Laughing) Yeah, thank god for Europe.
STARPOLISH:
I recently did an interview with The Village People, and they said
they would have starved to death if it weren't for Europe.
FISHER:
God bless them… they've got a lot of joy.
STARPOLISH:
I talked to them about dealing with the loss of a band member, because
in the interviews we do we really try to talk to people about the
different things you confront as an artist -- and losing someone
who was so highly recognized is tough. But the strange thing was
that in that group, the character was famous, not necessarily the
person. So they had to find someone who sort of looked like his
character, who could wear the outfit. So it's not like The Beatles,
where when you lose John Lennon the band is unalterably changed.
But it was extremely difficult for them -- Glenn was one of the
founding members. Music seems to be a business where people often
have to deal with that more than they should have to… Anyway, another
question for you -- you were just talking about being one of three
female artists on a label, and yet Fisher is actually a duo… Fisher
is a band. Some people may not even know that.
FISHER:
I think we are getting it out. We realized that we made a marketing
mistake. Ron was always concerned that he would get in the way --it
was not me going, "It needs to be about me!"
STARPOLISH:
Well, obviously you are an attractive female, and you're on the
cover, not Ron. I always wondered if it was your decision.
FISHER: It was his decision…
STARPOLISH:
He's a pretty selfless guy then, in some ways.
FISHER:
And it sucks then. There are articles that will say - for example,
the Mariners thing -- "Kathy Fisher wrote it." And it's like, wait
a minute -- I wrote the words, Ron wrote the track and the melody,
and his name isn't mentioned here.
STARPOLISH:
But somehow it seems that he's OK with that?
FISHER:
Well, the funny thing is that Ron has come out of his shell in the
last year. He was always incredibly shy. He used to have hair down
to his butt, and he used to hide behind it on stage. But it's interesting,
because he would say, "You'll do all the talking on the radio and
you'll do this and you'll do that and I'll stay back here." He didn't
even want photos taken of him for the CD. And I'd say, "Let's just
have a small one of you on the inside so people know what you look
like." But he'd say, "No, no, no, it's just not going to work."
So we start doing the radio promo stuff last fall and winter and
I would be on air having a great time with the DJs and laughing
and talking, and just go in and have a blast. And he was like, "Um,
I want a mic." So then he started realizing how much fun it was
and he started talking on the radio. Now, when we were out with
Duncan Sheik, he wanted his own stage mic to chit-chat. So he's
totally come out of his shell. And we realized that instead of pushing
the fans away by alienating them with "They're a couple!" people
LIKED it.
STARPOLISH:
Was there a concern that if your fans knew that you were not only
a duo but personally involved, that it might lessen the appeal?
FISHER:
Yes - you know, like Bono… you never even see pictures of him and
his wife.
STARPOLISH:
You would never know he is married.
FISHER:
And they just had their fourth kid together. They've been together
since they were 19… they were high school sweethearts.
STARPOLISH:
And I think there would be more pressure on the female. There's
always that fantasy of hope…
FISHER:
And it wasn't that we were trying to lie about it. We just didn't
want to put it in people's faces. And also as a female artist, it's
hard enough without people going "She's nothing without him. She's
just his puppet." So I needed to have a certain amount of independence
established that I was just as valuable to the duo as he was. So
in a way it worked the other way, where he got pushed out and not
credited as much. Then people call him Ron Fisher. He realizes it's
so much easier to be Fisher than Ron. 'Cause people are calling
out Rod, and Rob and Wasserman. So now we'll get to a restaurant
and he'll just say "Fisher".
STARPOLISH:
They probably think he's the guy doing the duets albums.
FISHER:
Yes, they think he's Rob Wasserman.
STARPOLISH:
I hate to admit this, but when I first saw the piece Ron wrote for
StarPolish, I was like, "Oh, I have an album by him." Then I read
his bio and saw he was in Fisher and realized it wasn't him.
FISHER:
(Laughing) Yeah, someone said to me, "I've met your stepchildren!"
Uh, I don't have any.
STARPOLISH:
So how was it touring with Duncan Sheik? I guess when I saw you
in New York you were on that tour.
FISHER:
Yes, we did five and a half weeks with Duncan, and a week with David
Grey.
STARPOLISH:
I think our readers would find it interesting to talk about the
decisions you have to make when you open for another artist who
is a little bit better known. I don't know how generous the people
you were touring with were - I've heard some bands can be complete
dicks to their opening acts. But in general, I'd guess you have
to shorten your set when you open for another act. Does your set
need to be more hit-loaded? Does it matter who you open for?
FISHER:
It's interesting, because I initially thought that the David Gray
audiences would relate to us better. Then with Duncan's [fans],
we had two sets worked out -- we had one set where we would incorporate
loops more, and then we had one where we would strip down to just
guitar, vocals and piano. And we found after three shows trying
it either way that we sold more CDs at Duncan's shows if we just
stripped down. So that's what ended up doing -- except we would
be like, "Duncan , is it OK if we do 'Dream On'?" because it was
kind of a departure, and we would throw the loops on and do "Dream
On" as our encore, as our last song. It was interesting because
we sold far more CDs with his audience -- there were nights when
we would sell 40 or 50 CDs with Duncan's folks. And I think that's
because as artistic as Duncan can be, he's also in the pop structure
the way we are. No matter what song he's doing, there's a verse
there's a verse, chorus, verse, chorus, verse, chorus, out. David
comes from more of the jam world - you know, the Dave Matthews kind
of world. It also depended on what part of the country we were in.
Texas was horrible for us, it was like things under my fingernails.
I would see these frat guys there saying, "What is she whining about
now? Bring Gray on." However, when we did a show in New Orleans
at the House of Blues, it was a real mixed international kind of
audience, a real tourist kind of time, and they were screaming for
us. We felt hugely loved. It couldn't have been a better night for
us, it was fantastic. Then we got to Texas, and we were like, "What
are we doing here?" It was interesting because they are both introverted
men. With Duncan, I can at least sit and watch a movie with him,
but David… I've never even met him.
STARPOLISH:
I've read that he really paid his dues before he made it.
FISHER:
Because of that, I thought we would really connect, but we didn't.
He didn't welcome me to the tour, or even say hi, so I don't know.
You have these expectations that you are going to hit it off and
be the musician's new friends and it'll be so cool. And maybe Duncan
will come up and sing with us, and we'll go sing with him and it
will be one big love fest. But it's like, "No, Duncan's off buying
a new guitar at the store," and David won't come out of his bus.
STARPOLISH:
But if nothing else, that experience should inform you and how you
treat opening acts when bands start opening for you.
FISHER:
But it's already happened -- that's why I was thrown. We were headlining
some clubs [last] January and February, and David Meade, a very
talented RCA artist, opened for us. And when I found out, I went
to his Web site, I checked out his music, and I checked out his
bio. And I thought, "Wow, he's got a great voice. Maybe we'll connect,
maybe we'll bond. He'll sing with me, I'll sing with him." Then
we meet him, and he's this really nice introvert. He shows up when
he is supposed to, he's polite, he's kind, and he leaves.
STARPOLISH:
(Laughing) And when he's interviewed, he's like, "Fisher was really
nice, but she's really pushy she kept wanting to play together…"
FISHER:
(Laughs) Well, you either naturally bond or you don't. We bonded
really well with Duncan's band -- not to say that we didn't bond
with Duncan. One night, his drummer Matt jumped up and played "Dream
On" with us. And we loved all his musicians; we thought they were
great. We hope to do some work with his guitar player in the near
future. All of that is all well and good, but it's just not the
fantasy. For example, I heard -- and maybe this is just an urban
myth -- that Bono, and I hate to keep coming back to him, but he's
amazing, that whoever opens for him, Bono makes a point of coming
into the dressing room and greeting them and welcoming them to the
tour. And that's how I believe it should be. And I tried to create
that with David, but he was just really shy and he was just going
to do what he was going to do, and that was cool.
STARPOLISH:
I think that as an outsider, you think that it's like the VIP room
at a club -- once you make it in there, everyone is best friends.
We're here all here doing the same things, and we'll all be great
friends. And then you realize that half the people just wanted to
have a drink in the corner and not be hassled - and that's the reason
they're in the VIP room.
FISHER:
Actually, I understand now why featured artists and opening acts
need their own spaces, because we had a dressing room in the House
of Blues in New Orleans that was the size of my kitchen and it shouldn't
have qualified as a dressing room -- it was more of a pass-through
closet. And somehow, right outside, was the door to the balcony
for the VIP area. And that night all these Irish, English and Scottish
people from Michael Flatley's Lord of the Dance were there.
STARPOLISH:
(Laughing) Oh, no! It sounds like a Saturday Night Live episode!
FISHER:
And they were the nicest people. You know, Ron was chit-chatting
with this one girl, and he's like, "Hey, you want to come in and
meet Kathy?" Within an hour we had 30 Lords of the Dance
stuffed in our closet during David Gray's set, just in there partying.
And they were so nice. But I'm really sensitive to smoke, and they're
English, they're Scottish, and they start lighting up. I start freaking
out -- "Not cigarettes!" Then someone lit up some skunk weed, and
I was like "Noooo!" I looked and Ron and said we have to get out
of here. Then I realized that the clothes I changed out of for the
show are somewhere, my shoes are somewhere, a $5,000 Mac computer
is somewhere. So, I'm asking, "Excuse me, can you hand me that computer?"
"Oh sure, love, sorry love." And they're sitting on them. And my
pants are warm because they were sitting on them. I mean nothing
was stolen or bothered -- they were just the nicest people. One
girl kept hitting on Ron, then he would bring her over to me and
she was hitting on me. And Ron goes, "That was so rude. She knew
we are married. I can't believe that." And I go "Ron, isn't it profound
that we were hit on all night by Lords of the Dance?" and
he goes, "What?" So I say, "Ron, that was a Lord of the Dance
troupe. Did you just think that there was a disproportionate number
of really good-looking, really fit European people at the show?"
STARPOLISH:
Just one of those interesting nights, eh?
FISHER:
Yeah, now I know why people need privacy -- otherwise your space
gets taken over.
STARPOLISH:
I do want to touch base on some of the newer stuff that's happening.
Based on the E-mails I received trying to schedule this interview,
you seem to be in the middle of recording?
FISHER:
We're moving on to the recording of our second CD. A lot of that
has to do with the folding of the Farm Club. We really lost our
ground; we lost our status in terms of continuing to work on this
record.
STARPOLISH:
So, what's happening with the album that's out now? Is it getting
any kind of push?
FISHER:
Exactly, it's just sort of floating around. It's a real shame.
STARPOLISH:
It's such a strong album.
FISHER:
It is a strong album. I mean, I'm proud of it. But politics are
politics and timing is everything. And to have those two things
happen -- to have the Farm Club fold, and also the transition at
Interscope with Tom Walley leaving to go to Warner…
STARPOLISH:
Was he sort of your champion there?
FISHER:
He loved the record. But wherever there's chaos like that, there's
not enough to nurture an artist. Basically, they never declare it
dead - it's on life support. Good examples of that are the Dido
and the Jewel records. They were pretty much in a coma and they
got little pushes from here and there. And Dido had that television
show - I forget which one -- [Roswell] but that revived the record
and now it's a great record. No record is ever dead, but its not
getting the push. We could end up working on the second record here
in the states and have the first record take off in Europe in the
next six months. That's a possibility.
STARPOLISH:
Do you deal with the international divisions at all in terms of
what they are pushing?
FISHER:
That's out of our hands, because they have to have the enthusiasm
to want you there. The label has to have the OK to throw the X-amount
of dollars for touring into it. You really don't want to tour without
a reason. You don't want to tour without a single supporting it,
without radio play to support it. But that's something we've learned.
You go into a city where you are getting radio support and you are
always going to have some kind of audience. But areas like Texas,
where we weren't getting a lot of radio support, people didn't know
who we were. It's tough to go [there] from a market where it's like,
"My God, can you still walk down the street without getting mobbed?"
They were going to release "I Will Love You" as a single in Europe
because they felt it's a great song. But it never happened.
STARPOLISH:
Does the CD you're working on have a name yet?
FISHER:
Not yet…
STARPOLISH:
So are you and Ron are doing this one on your own?
FISHER:
Yes. Our goal is to try and record 25 to 30 songs in the next six
months.
STARPOLISH:
Let me know if I'm getting too much into your business, but you
just left Interscope -- what was your deal with them? Did they have
an option on the next record, is that owed to them?
FISHER:
Yes, originally they wanted it. It was a two-album deal. [Joined
by Ron Wasserman]
WASSERMAN:
But after we had dinner with them - it was the meeting when they
said they wanted the album - we realized we didn't want the same
situation to happen with the second CD. We had surveyed several
markets where True North had done well on radio and found it wasn't
available at retail. We presented them with information about the
distribution problems but they didn't believe that was the problem.
Plus there was the problem with some European subsidiaries and the
album not being released there despite strong radio airplay. Refusing
to release [an album] will kill your drive for the second CD. So
we started to wonder - do we really want to sign over six months
of new material that they'll own all the rights to? So last fall
we made the decision to leave.
STARPOLISH:
So you're sort of working on the new album by yourselves right now?
FISHER:
Yes, we're starting to hook up again with our co-writer, John Adaire.
He had a death in the family so he was out of commission for a while.
We love writing with John because he is just a plethora of ideas
-- he and Ron just bounce off each other like magic. And we are
bringing our drummer in with some loop and track ideas.
WASSERMAN:
We've completed nine songs, and John's the co-writer on six of them.
STARPOLISH:
I think Ron said you are recording in the country?
FISHER:
Yes, we're up in the Los Padres forest north of L.A.
STARPOLISH:
So that's your place?
FISHER:
|
"So we started to wonder - do we really want to sign over
six months of new material that [the label will] own all the
rights to?" |
Yes,
we bought a place up there because the real estate is like 800%
less [expensive] than in L.A. So we have a place down there where
we rent, and we have the place up there that we bought dirt cheap.
And it's beautiful up here and peaceful. It's a really nice creative
environment.
STARPOLISH:
And you don't have that studio clock ticking.
FISHER:
No, but sometimes that's good, because sometimes I should be writing
and instead I'm thinking, "Oh, I'll go paint the deck." But it's
just good to get out. As good as it is to have your business skills
and your contacts, you still need to find a way to step out of it
into a creative space, and I think that's what we've created up
here.
STARPOLISH:
Is there any timeline or deadline for finishing this?
FISHER:
We wanted to have some definite song ideas out by November and then
get some musicians together to flesh out the songs. So we are hoping
to have the next CD out by June.
WASSERMAN:
But it will really depend on the next three months - whether we
sign with a major label. And I want to say that despite everything,
we're not the least bit jaded or anti-major label. We're still on
a first-name basis with a lot of people at Interscope and a lot
of people there have been very helpful.
FISHER:
But we will never ever, ever, ever release in the fourth quarter
again. There was just so much stacked against us: new artist, fourth
quarter, ballad. Again, because of the Internet, we were the guinea
pigs, a gamble. And I said to our A&R guys, "We should have listened
to our manager when he wanted to stop San Diego from playing "I
Will Love You." And he was like, "Yeah, but if it had gone, we would
have been geniuses!"
STARPOLISH:
What's the Spinal Tap line --it's a fine line between stupidity
and genius? Is there anything you would do hugely different? And
having used the Internet successfully, are you going to use it differently
this time?
FISHER:
Let me put it this way. The way I think artists should treat fans…
I admire country artists; I really feel they nurture their relationships
with their fans. Nationally, they have a fan day, and they're not
into putting on airs. They don't make it seems like being aloof
is cool. I don't believe in that. I believe in direct contact with
your audience, and that's where I think the Internet is an invaluable
tool, to perpetuate that, to keep that going, to keep us approachable.
In that regard, it helps us to continue to be the personable band
with the heart. We'll write you back --it's not our assistant. If
I don't write you back, I don't write you back. If I'm busy it's
one thing, and if I am lazy it's one thing, but I won't pass it
off to someone who pretends they are me.
STARPOLISH:
So this way you'll be personally ignored by Kathy instead of her
assistant (laughing).
FISHER:
I'll be straight up -- sometimes I am so fucking sick of being on
the computer and I'll have 100 E-mails -- and I won't answer them.
Then I'll take a day and I'll answer 30 in a day.
STARPOLISH:
Is [the Internet] still beneficial for drawing people to live shows
for you guys?
FISHER:
Absolutely, because here and there you'll have a promoter fuck up
and you'll have no posters up.
STARPOLISH:
Do you use street teams?
FISHER:
Do you mean Internet street teams?
STARPOLISH:
Both on the Internet, or to put up posters around town and in clubs
- sort of guerrilla marketing teams.
FISHER:
Yes and no. We had an E-team which was kind of mismanaged because
the company who took it over was a little too slick. We started
out with our fans being very down to earth, and we'd say, "Hey,
if you want to bootleg this song get the attention, you be the one
person to do that for two weeks before the song was released just
to get the energy up. You have people who are willing to that for
you. The company that came and took over E-team was a little corporate
about it. And so we would get people who were used to our approach
going, "What's this formal letter I got that's making me feel like
a number?" We kind of messed up there. We picked the wrong E-team
sponsor.
STARPOLISH:
So how did the tour with Duncan Sheik go?
FISHER:
Balls were totally dropped on the tour in terms of posters and street
teams for that. It was very depressing showing up to the club and
seeing "Duncan Sheik and Special Guest" -- you're like, "Why are
there no Fisher posters?" But you know, that's a label thing, too.
It's that shit you have to watch like a hawk. You always have to
think of it as a corporation that we merged with, and there are
going to be people at that corporation who do their jobs phenomenonally
[well] and those who just don't give a shit -- just like any other
job, whether you are a doctor, a lawyer or a rock star. Ron and
I had the greatest time talking to my uncle who is a CEO at GE,
and we compared notes. If you come into a managerial position in
a business and you turn a company around too fast, you put yourself
out of a job. If you come in and increase productivity 200% in the
first two years, then the next two years you have to increase it
400%. You can't live up to that. And we were like "God, that's just
like Eminem." 'Cause his first album sold 13 million and the second
was six million and it's considered a failure. He sold six million
fucking records… it's not a failure! But you create expectations
you cannot match.
STARPOLISH:
Especially working for a public company, where they measure success
quarter by quarter.
FISHER:
And so do labels. And then one of the employees at the corporation
forgot to hang posters. So what do you do?
STARPOLISH:
Well, he's probably just enjoying his job. He's not turning it around
- he's on the 10-year plan. And unfortunately, it's built on your
back.
FISHER:
So now we go straight to the E-teamers in the area ourselves --
we go straight to Joe Smith in Nevada and ask him if we can send
him 30 flats to for the show.
STARPOLISH:
And think-- if you are this guy and a fan of the band, how cool
is it that Kathy Fisher calls you up? I mean just in terms of a
motivating factor, there are so many people who don't have the talent…
FISHER:
But love music…
STARPOLISH:
And who want to be involved. For every person who creates music,
there have to be a bunch that enjoy listening to it, and empowering
those people is pretty cool. This is probably a guy who will do
anything. I'm curious to see how that works out.
FISHER:
|
"I admire country artists; I really feel they nurture their
relationships with their fans." |
There's
just so much to learn and implement. And after the next album there
will be so much to learn and implement. We're always going to be
fucking up. But it's fucking up on one level to that you can go
on to another level.
STARPOLISH:
You're learning…
FISHER:
And who knows what our peak level is going to be. Are we going to
sell a million albums ever? I don't know. But if it ever gets to
the point where we can sell 500,000, it's still fantastic.
STARPOLISH:
Depending on your deal, actually. There are bands that have contracts
where they don't break even on 500,000…
FISHER:
You know what, honey? I don't even think in terms of dollars with
the deal. Ron and I know that there's more money in television than
anything. Every now and then Ron will crank out an idea for a children's
show, and I do as many commercials as I can a year.
STARPOLISH:
So are you doing a lot of that kind of stuff?
FISHER:
Yes. And those commercial spots - my Chrysler, Verizon, and Hyundai
spots -- are what buys the house, not the record deal. You know,
that is so foreign to me, the idea of making money selling records.
STARPOLISH:
And that's the dream, really…
FISHER:
 Actually,
the dream is reaching people with music. And I've been programmed
that while you're doing it, you always have to have something to
pay the bills. So the breaking even -- I know it's there and we
always try to keep our budgets down so that it's not a situation
where there's never a chance of recouping. We did all the vocals
at the house on the last record so that we weren't always down in
L.A. in a studio burning up money. And if I was having a bad throat
day or a bad mood day, we weren't just burning up money. We did
all the vocals up here, and we did all the guitar overdubs up here.
So we are not about, "Oh, whatever, if we recoup, we recoup." We
keep the budgets reasonable. If fact, I think we want to spend even
less on this next record. We spent a lot mixing and remastering
and all that stuff, and Ron's saying, "I'm not that bad - fuck it,
I'll remix the next record." Not that we don't like Don, but it's
a lot of money. |
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_________________________________
For the latest information about Fisher, check out the band's Web
site at:
http://www.fishertheband.com |
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_________________________________
James K. Willcox is Editorial Director of StarPolish. |
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